SOTW #50 Winner!

It's the internet.. when you meet each other in real life, no one has a big mouth, and e-nig has a small penis.

lol

Boomlala wrote:

Spraynwipe wrote:I never said my opinion was worth more...

Spraynwipe wrote:but what would a non-gfx forum person know..

You can't deny that fact. You know less about the GFX criteria because you are a non-gfx person on a non-gfx forum.
That doesn't give the impression of Spray claiming his opinion to be worth more.

Of course that's only how I see it, you might look at it differently. But I'm telling you, you're wasting your time by whining about people wording their their statement as if their opinions were worth more. It always happens, it'll always happen.

Moreover, when you come to think of it, every argument, both decent and nonsense argument, is based on the starting point where people consider their opinions be worthy of more.

*Hule* wrote:

Boomlala wrote:

Spraynwipe wrote:I never said my opinion was worth more...

Spraynwipe wrote:but what would a non-gfx forum person know..

You can't deny that fact. You know less about the GFX criteria because you are a non-gfx person on a non-gfx forum.
That doesn't give the impression of Spray claiming his opinion to be worth more.

Of course that's only how I see it, you might look at it differently. But I'm telling you, you're wasting your time by whining about people wording their their statement as if their opinions were worth more. It always happens, it'll always happen.

Moreover, when you come to think of it, every argument, both decent and nonsense argument, is based on the starting point where people consider their opinions be worthy of more.

Agreed. It's like saying you know more than the chief engineer at CERN about large hadron colliders. Their opinion probably is worth more, if you like it or not. At least, their argument is certainly more valid using the mnemonic "CREDIBLE" as a basis for the validity of all arguments.

=D

Boomlalargument #1: There are different manners to say that you have more knowledge on a certain topic than someone else. Some are polite and could lead to new knowledge in the other person, some are just arrogant(-ish).

Boomlalargument #2: we're talking about art appreciation, not hydrophysics or nuclear chemistry. Art appreciation is not a field where knowledge applies. Like I said, I dislike people who think there are people (like themselves) whose opinion on art is worth more than a normal person because he has more knowledge on the technical side of art. That knowledge is not transferrable to art appreciation. Someone could write a highly complex poem, with lots of stylistical tools, but the poem still could be crap. Art critics often find these kind of poems the absolute masterpieces (due to the high technical level of the poem) but normal people often don't find it very amusing. The technical side CAN be a reason to appreciate art (like the critics do) but it isn't the only side of art.

It's the same reason I highly dislike Igor Stravinsky. I'm not a fan of his music, but even if I was, I would dislike the man. He once composed a very complex song called Sacre du Printemps, but I (and the audience of the première) find it bullocks. Stravinsky often said that the audience was made out of fools who didn't understand his music. To me, you shouldn't be able to 'understand' the art. You should 'feel' the art.

And that's all I wanted to point out.

EDIT: forgot a word somewhere

Amen brother

Crow wrote:It's the internet.. when you meet each other in real life, no one has a big mouth, and e-nig has a small penis.

You do realize im buying a ticket to orangeland and im coming to slap you with my 'small' penis

No quotes are needed..We all know it's tiny I mean even your girlfriend fucks other men because its tinier

rofl xD
the only thing that bothers me is how Ryan and Tey know the size of it hehe

I can imagina Tey knowing it since he blows everyones trumpet, but how does Ryan our dearly beloved priest know it? O.o

Boomlala wrote:we're talking about art appreciation, not hydrophysics or nuclear chemistry. Art appreciation is not a field where knowledge applies.

I think that art is something you can improve on, be good or be bad. Just like music, just like maths, just like science and so on.

Boomlala wrote:Like I said, I dislike people who think there are people (like themselves) whose opinion on art is worth more than a normal person because he has more knowledge on the technical side of art. That knowledge is not transferrable to art appreciation.

The opinion of a person who has much knowledge about art's technical side is better than of someone who has less knowledge, when speaking of the technical side.

Take an example: You said you do HTML coding or such in your spare time. I'm more than sure that you have an opinion of more worth on the particular field than I have, because you know about coding and I don't have the foggiest idea of it.
The technical side of art is pretty much comparable with this. It's an objective side of art which hasn't got much to do with personal opinions.

When we're talking especially about GFX art the opinions of those who have much experience and professional skill are more valuable than novices' because they know about art. They have become good at art and thus are able to guide others. Still, they shouldn't be taken 100% seriously since naturally their opinions are coloured by personal likes and dislikes. No human being is able to get rid of those.

BUT: none can come and say their opinion is better than yours when we're speaking of eg. the interpretation of art and other aspects which are meant to be absorbed subjectively. This is the personal side in which everyone's opinion is equal, at least that's how I think of it.

Boomlala wrote:The technical side CAN be a reason to appreciate art (like the critics do) but it isn't the only side of art.

No-one said it was. But the technical side is a major deal when making art, hence people appreciat it too.

Boomalala wrote:To me, you shouldn't be able to 'understand' the art. You should 'feel' the art.

Those who wish to make art for others to 'feel' must 'understand' the art in order to make it something to feel.

Part 1: Art appreciation: what the receiving end of art (the viewers, listeners, ... the 'customers') do. You can't improve in art appreciation, or become better in it. It is like a basic sense, but of your brain. You missed the point a bit there. Maybe I didn't quite get the mot juste.

Part 2:

BUT: none can come and say their opinion is better than yours when we're speaking of eg. the interpretation of art and other aspects which are meant to be absorbed subjectively. This is the personal side in which everyone's opinion is equal, at least that's how I think of it.

This is exactly what I said in Boomlalargument #2.

Part 3: I don't think everyday people often appreciate the process of art (or the process of anything really), but focus more on the end product.

Part 4: Like said, I was talking about appreciation, not creation.

Boomlala wrote:Part 1: Art appreciation: what the receiving end of art (the viewers, listeners, ... the 'customers') do. You can't improve in art appreciation, or become better in it. It is like a basic sense, but of your brain. You missed the point a bit there. Maybe I didn't quite get the mot juste.

Actually you can improve in art appreciation. The more you spend time with art and see diffierent pieces of art, the more your artistic eye and taste will change into better direction.

Boomlala wrote:Part 2:

*Hule* wrote:BUT: none can come and say their opinion is better than yours when we're speaking of eg. the interpretation of art and other aspects which are meant to be absorbed subjectively. This is the personal side in which everyone's opinion is equal, at least that's how I think of it.

This is exactly what I said in Boomlalargument #2.

No, it's not exactly what you said.
In Boomlalargument #2 you also said that art appreciation is not a field where knowledge applies. This is practically fase since the more knowledge you get, the more it affects your art appreciation.

And you said that your argument #2 meant the same as my statement, but we have to remember that the other half lies in the technical side as I mentioned in my previous post.

Boomlala wrote:Part 3: I don't think everyday people often appreciate the process of art (or the process of anything really), but focus more on the end product.

True. This is why they don't realize the full unity of art before familiarizing to the process and technical side.

Part 1: I don't see how anyone could improve in art appreciation. You could learn more about a certain piece, and heighten the appreciation of a certain piece, but there are no levels of artistic eyes. Ergo, there aren't people who are better at judging art than others. For example, my appreciation (even if it's negative) of Sacre du Printemps is equal to someone else's. Appreciation is truly of your own. My point was that I dislike people who think it isn't.

Part 2 sub-part 1: Knowledge may affect your appreciation, but won't make your skill in art appreciation better compared to someone else. Like stated, appreciation skills are equal or (a better wording in my point of view) don't exist.

Part 2 sub-part 2: I didn't forget about it, I just picked the quoted area. The reason because I didn't talk about the other stuff because it talked about creation and was not quite on-topic. You may appreciate a website/game/whatever (both positively or negatively) even if you don't know a runt about HTML/coding/whatever. And if you do, it doesn't give your appreciation a higher level then someone who doesn't. Quote self: "Like stated, appreciation skills are equal or (a better wording in my point of view) don't exist."

Just a reminder: I'm speaking mostly of GFX art.

However, there are certain criteria arranged which define how particular things can be made to look cool.
This is how you learn art.

I bet that if I knew more about art I would consider those pieces which follow the common criteria cooler than those who don't follow it. You know, if you don't know about better you can't miss it. =P

Then the artists add the personal additions "on" what has been made first which is the common side. This is where the fact that everyone's opinion is equal.


Anyway, I'm tired of this argument because obviously this is not leading anywhere. All the above is how I see it, I alsounderstand your point of view, though.

-*Hule* away

Alrighty, then I'll wrap it up with my final response.

About criteria: those criteria are made up. Usually they have a solid ground, but they're not perfect. The ones who achieved greatness usually followed these rules perfectly and excelled at them, or discovered something entirely new.

About knowing more about art creation vs. better appreciation: I don't think that is quite true. You like a piece because you like it. Although you can often say why you like it (sometimes you cannot), there is no reasoning behind it.

And the third paragraphe was the centre of my point: everybody's opinion is equal in the field of art.

Boomlala is right Hule thats all I'm going to say.

grats